Mohammed Teddybear woman is freed

[Si Hunt]

Thousands of people have marched in the Sudanese capital Khartoum to call for UK teacher Gillian Gibbons to be shot.

Mrs Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, was jailed by a court on Thursday after allowing children in her class to name a teddy bear Muhammad.

She was sentenced to 15 days for insulting religion, and she will then be deported.

The Foreign Office was in contact with Sudan's government overnight and is due to repeat demands for her release.

The marchers took to the streets after Friday prayers to denounce the sentence as too lenient.

The protesters gathered in Martyrs Square, outside the presidential palace in the capital, many of them carrying knives and sticks.

Marchers chanted "Shame, shame on the UK", "No tolerance - execution" and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad".

Hundreds of riot police were deployed but they did not break up the demonstration.

The Foreign Office said it was seeking more details about the protest.

This story has been buzzing around for days, but now they want her SHOT. I can't fathom that so many people could call for something so unjust.

What are your thoughts on this? Shoot the teddy, I say. It's caused all the trouble.

Si.

[Pip Madeley]

Protestors demand Mohammed Teddybear woman is shot

Absolute bloody insanity.

[Larry]

This story has been buzzing around for days, but now they want her SHOT. I can't fathom that so many people could call for something so unjust.

What are your thoughts on this? Shoot the teddy, I say. It's caused all the trouble.

Si.

I think if any proof were needed this just prooves what a barbaric inhuman and pathetic religion Islam/muslims is they are are a danger to world peace and the sooner we in the west crush these muslim fanatics the better.

[WhiteCrow]

KILL ALL FANATICS!

No this really is a bit extreme. If this is such an offense, why doesn't someone shoot Mohammed Ali for being blastphemous for taking the prophets name for himself?

[Jason Thompson]

It's utterly absurd. OK, she should have been aware of the laws of the country in which she chose to work, but how anyone can confuse naming a teddy bear (which, let us remember, was something the children in the class did, not her) with insulting a religion and inciting hatred is completely beyond me.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

As ridiculous as this is, we all know this kind of thing goes on in places like this, where modern day laws and customs seem to bear a remarkable resemblence to all the worst stories you hear of medieval practices over here. Just take a look at the foreign office advice on Sudan for all the other potential life-threatening problems you might face while you're over there. This woman obviously knew what kind of place she was going to and she should think herself very lucky to only face 10-15 days in prison and a swift flight home afterwards.

Obviously she felt she was doing good there, and that's admirable, but she knew the risks and she can't really expect a big international incident to kick off to get "justice" for her. If you want to be trated fairly and justly, don't go and work in a barbaric and insane religious state.

[Captain Tancredi]

Any offence to Islam which she may or may not have caused would be nothing compared to the response in this country if she were beaten or shot. The spectacle of a middle-aged (presumably voluntary) female teacher being punished in that way could be exactly what tips some of the tensions in this country over into outright violence.

[WhiteCrow]

I think part of the problem is the protest is a protest against Britain which is seen as a great oppressor of Islam, despite having a history at home of religious freedom.

You look at behaviour in such countries and it's like looking back at Medieval attitudes to crime and punishment. It seems many of the countries which practise absolute brutality as part of their crime and punishment have an absolute dominant, fanatic ideology, be it communism, Islam or Christianity

[Ralph]

I feel Islam has been grossly insulted. We must stamp out the infidels!

[Carol Baynes]

I think if any proof were needed this just prooves what a barbaric inhuman and pathetic religion Islam/muslims is they are are a danger to world peace and the sooner we in the west crush these muslim fanatics the better.

Not very helpful that though, is it? Regardless of what i think of the religion, most muslims I know are law abiding, decent people (and I know quite a few).

[Carol Baynes]

It's utterly absurd. OK, she should have been aware of the laws of the country in which she chose to work, but how anyone can confuse naming a teddy bear (which, let us remember, was something the children in the class did, not her) with insulting a religion and inciting hatred is completely beyond me.

Exactly! It's crazy.

[Carol Baynes]

KILL ALL FANATICS!

No this really is a bit extreme. If this is such an offense, why doesn't someone shoot Mohammed Ali for being blastphemous for taking the prophets name for himself?

Millions of people are called Mohammed, so yes, point taken.

[Andrew Curnow]

I think the Sudanese should be glad she's English. If this story was about an American teacher, George W would have declared war by now.

[Nathan]

I think if any proof were needed this just prooves what a barbaric inhuman and pathetic religion Islam/muslims is they are are a danger to world peace and the sooner we in the west crush these muslim fanatics the better.

Balanced opinion there. That's just as bad as the other nutters.

[Nathan]

Millions of people are called Mohammed, so yes, point taken.

Not really as naming a person by that name is not idolatory.

[Carol Baynes]

Not really as naming a person by that name is not idolatory.

But why not? That's what's bloody silly about it all....it was an innocant idea to name a teddy bear. I could call my cat Jesus or Bussha and no one would probably mind.

[Captain Tancredi]

I think BBCi explained it that calling your child Mohammed is seen as a tribute and there's a belief that either you or the child will get into heaven because of it.

Personally I've always found it odd that many boys in Spanish-speaking countries are called Jesus, and yet people would think you very strange if you wanted to call your son Jesus in this country, while some of the most frequently-used boys' names (note I'm not saying "common"- we have a lot of Simons and a couple of Andrews here!) are taken from the disciples.

And Carol- one of my mum and dad's cats probably thought his name was Jesus because it tended to be what my mum called out when she went into the kitchen first thing to find another little present...

[Jon Masters]

I'm slightly surprised by some of the reaction on here. I don't want in any way to be taken as a supporter of Sudan, but (AFAIK) the Muslim religion is very strict on graven images representing Mohammed - they're not allowed .

For someone in education to be so ignorant of local customs beggars belief a bit. It's not whether what she did was harmful or malicious in our eyes or not, and I think she should be grateful that she has been dealt with relatively leniently. Of course, the reaction by the masses is as hysterical as ever, but mob rule always behaves like this. Witness the hysteria that strikes British people when a council decides to have 'Winter festivals' instead of Christmas fetes, and yet I don't remember anything in the Bible about thou shalt celebrate Christmas each year by organising huge secular events.

Would we be quite so forgiving of this women if she had accidently fed pork to Jewish children, or had a stuffed pig called Moses or Jehovah ?

We may not believe that others' beliefs are correct, or that their justice systems are sound (although I am in favour of the hideous penalties handed out to dumb British tourists caught drug smuggling in the Far East), its dangerous to dismiss them as barbaric - people labelled as barbarians often go out of their way to fit the label.

[Si Hunt]

A very intelligent post there Jon - nice to hear an opposing view given thoughtful exposure.

Si.

[Milky Tears]

They should just shave her hair off!

[Jason Thompson]

[QUOTE=Jon Masters;80174]I'm slightly surprised by some of the reaction on here. I don't want in any way to be taken as a supporter of Sudan, but (AFAIK) the Muslim religion is very strict on graven images representing Mohammed - they're not allowed .[quote]

Unfortunately it's not so cut-and-dried as that. Like most religions there are degrees of orthodoxy and extremism. Some muslim groups are happy to allow the use of the name mohammed if it is clearly not intended as a representation of the prophet (so the cartoon furore recently was justified because it clearly was a representation of the prophet), whereas others are very strict and nothing whatsoever is allowed to be so named excapt a male child.

Part of the problem in this case is that the school is a mixture of conservative and liberal muslim groups (and is not very popular with a lot of people in Sudan because it does allow such liberal views), so some are OK with it and some are not.

For someone in education to be so ignorant of local customs beggars belief a bit.

Whilst I agree with that, see above. It's not too clear. And frankly, for the children and other staff members to be ignorant about it also beggars belief. Couldn't someone have had a quiet word with her about it? One of the students has already said it was his idea and the class voted on it, and as I understand the situation the parents of the chuildren were also aware of the situation.

It's not whether what she did was harmful or malicious in our eyes or not, and I think she should be grateful that she has been dealt with relatively leniently.

I'm sorry, I don't see how being found guilty of inciting racial hatred and insulting a religion and being jailed for it is being treated leniently. OK, she's not been lashed or shot, but why did this even get to a court? Why did no-one, not a parent, not a staff member, think to remind her that it might not be a good idea? She did not name the teddy, the children did.

Would we be quite so forgiving of this women if she had accidently fed pork to Jewish children, or had a stuffed pig called Moses or Jehovah ?

I doubt anyone would care if she had a stuffed pig named Moses or Jehovah, apart from a minority of people who would simply dismiss her. If she'd fed pork to a Jewish child she'd get a reprimand and maybe suspended from work. Are you seriously trying to tell me she'd be tried or jailed or accused of religious intolerance for either of those things?

She made an innocent mistake. OK, she should not have made it, but going to court and being jailed on charges of inciting hatred is utterly absurd, however tolerant we may try to be of others' views.

[Si Hunt]

I think the key word is "tolerence". In any walk of life, can an insult not be overlooked if it was obviously made unintentionally? When did these religions abandon the notion of forgiveness? Especially as she was there as a teacher.

Si.

[Ralph]

If those parents of the kids that complained had any decency they should have simply tipped off the teacher that to allow the kids to name the bear this way was an error. I suspect there's more to it as possibly the teacher wasn't liked by some of those who dropped her in it. I'd agree though if you go to countries with these "sensitive cultures" you really ought to be savvy to the pitfalls

The whole thing is well out of proportion in any event.

[Jon Masters]

One of the students has already said it was his idea and the class voted on it, and as I understand the situation the parents of the chuildren were also aware of the situation.

And as I understand it the original complaint against her was brought by a group of those parents who presumably were more hard-line than some of the others. As a teacher I'm always aware that its not what the majority will think, its whether all of the parents will be happy about what I'm doing in class. Bitter experience has taught me that just one angry parent out of a class of 30odd can make your life hell with the authorities.

I'm sorry, I don't see how being found guilty of inciting racial hatred and insulting a religion and being jailed for it is being treated leniently.

Sorry, I meant given the possible punishments available she had got off lightly. I think the first charge ws spurious, but the second - well, we have enough of our own crap laws to not be in any kind of judgement. At least they're consistent with upholding theirs.

I doubt anyone would care if she had a stuffed pig named Moses or Jehovah, apart from a minority of people who would simply dismiss her. If she'd fed pork to a Jewish child she'd get a reprimand and maybe suspended from work. Are you seriously trying to tell me she'd be tried or jailed or accused of religious intolerance for either of those things?

Again, sorry - I meant what if those things had happened if she'd been teaching in Israel - would the UK have been just as comdemnatory ?

She made an innocent mistake. OK, she should not have made it, but going to court and being jailed on charges of inciting hatred is utterly absurd, however tolerant we may try to be of others' views.

And I don't disagree about the absurdity - I was expressing concern more about the Jingoism which seems rife in the media and which seemed to have spread a bit to PS

[Ralph]

Jingoism

*looks up dictionary*

I seemed to have missed that word in my lifetime....

apparently a "loud and bellicose patriot"

*looks up bellicose *

"warlike; aggresive, ready to fight"

Ah well I've learnt something from this thread.....