Rate & Discuss 4.6: The Doctor's Daughter

[Paul Clement]

One slight thing that occured to me while watching was that the Hath's physionomy is a little impractical and unlikely. The race have a glass breathing apparatus attached to their faces, you'd assume that the little Hathlings would break this if they ever fell over.

[Alex]

I really enjoyed it whilst watching it, but I can't help but feel a bit disappointed by it - I was suckered in to thinking it might be actually his daughter so it was a shame when it turned out to be a clone.

Martha didn't have that much to do either, other than her unlikely friendship with one of the Haath* and Donna once again did her shouty thing without really knowing what was going on.

I liked a lot of it, don't get me wrong, Jenny was bloody fantastic and I'm glad that she's not actually deceased (I'd be very happy with a spin off too, especially an adult one like Torchwood ), I much prefer the Doctor when he's less OTT, like he was this week, and the centra idea was a great one (though I'm a bit surprised that not one single individual had managed to survive one week's worth of war), but they were forcing the emotional side of things a bit too much for my liking, with the time war once again discussed as A VERY BAD THING which I think we've all realised now!

Still, it was fun stuff, and easily a very strong 7/10 - I guess I'm just still waiting for a really stand out classic episode this year, and they still haven't had one. That said it has been far more consistently strong than ever, so I'm hoping it's not too long till we have an absolute classic.






*I'm guessing at the spelling there, so it's probably wrong.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Awful. Absolutely awful.










No not really I quite liked it Not sure about my score yet but I'll probably give it 7 or 8 after I've mulled it over a bit. The little negative bits I didn't like though (just because, as someone else said, it's easier to pick those out, not because I hated it).

- It sounded nice on paper to have a companion who wasn't going to fall in love with the Doctor for a change, but if they're going to have to take pains to point out to people every week that they aren't an item then that's just as annoying really, if not more so.
- Not a major problem, but it might be nice for once to see a male guard who at least gets a little suspicious when a female prisoner suddenly decides she finds him irresistable.
- Martha was being hammy again, but never mind she's gone now.
- Not a problem with the episode itself, but seeing as the backflipping through the laser beams moment was featured in last week's trailer, it made their appearance as a seemingly unpassable obstacle in the episode less than worrying and made the next 2 or 3 minutes kind of pointless.
- Donna being brilliant with numbers... well okay she might be, but in this context it's a bit like saying you're brilliant with letters because you can read signposts. It's not like she solved any sudoku puzzles or anything. Also all the numbers she saw were all the same apart from the last two digits, so there wasn't really any pattern there to analyse to reach the calendar conclusion that she did, other than just having a guess really.

Aside from that, I'm also wondering quite why this episode was hyped so much or described in DWM as something that would change the format a lot or whatever was said. It WAS a big cop out that she was just cloned from him in the first 2 minutes, and nothing particularly Earth-shattering happened later on either. But again that's not a problem with the story, just the buildup.

[Dirk Gently]

Quick comment...Jenny was NOT A CLONE! She was an extrapolation from his genetic material. If she was a clone then she would be male & look like the doctor. Well that's what everyone was saying last week re: Christopher Ryan coming back as a Sontaran.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Well I'm calling her a clone or a hermaphroditic extrapolation if you like.

[Alex]

Quick comment...Jenny was NOT A CLONE! She was an extrapolation from his genetic material. If she was a clone then she would be male & look like the doctor. Well that's what everyone was saying last week re: Christopher Ryan coming back as a Sontaran.

Surely the big question is whether or not it'd be okay for the Doctor to shag her?

[Pip Madeley]

I thought that was excellent, definitely an 8/9 in my book - David Tennant really shone & that scene where the Doctor holds the gun to Cobb's head was superbly done

More thoughts later.

[Logo Polish]

Quick comment...Jenny was NOT A CLONE! She was an extrapolation from his genetic material. If she was a clone then she would be male & look like the doctor. Well that's what everyone was saying last week re: Christopher Ryan coming back as a Sontaran.

Although I like the idea that Georgia Moffett could be a female version of a very young William Hartnell.

[Milky Tears]

Agitate was woeful, that General Cobb dude was dire and Moffeatttt's brillo hair in Confidential destroyed everything.

2/10

[Pip Madeley]

2 this week, 1 last week - Milky's not a very happy Who fanboy!

As for Agyeman, I thought she was excellent, her reaction to the death of the kind Hath was one of her strongest moments in the series. IMO.

[Andrew Curnow]

Tonight Matthew, I'm going to be... Zbigniev Hamson!! By which I mean I didn't really like it much at all (sorry Zbigniev).

I suspect part of the reason may have been the hype and the knowing hints in DWM, etc about the Doctor genuinely having a daughter. Ye-es, I suppose technically speaking he did, but the hype was misleading and I'm afraid it meant that, for me, it just seemed a real cop-out. Also "Hello Dad" didn't make any sense really as a line, other than as a great feed in to the credits - it felt out of place, and out of character, and for me didn't work.

Oddly enough I'm really struggling to pin down why I didn't like it, I just... didn't. I didn't hate it, but it just did nothing for me, and twenty minutes in I kinda found myself waiting for the end. The Doctor had a family once - big shock revelation that we already knew about. The Time War left him alone - again, I think we may have touched on that subject before. The Doctor cradling a dying loved on in his arms - done so much better at the end of the last series; when the Master died I could feel the Doctor's rage and anguish and despair, but when Jenny (apparently) died it just felt too obvious. The moment they all smiled and hugged and said, "When this adventure's over, Jenny, you simply must join us on the TARDIS" I knew she'd be killed before the hour was out.

On the plus side, it was well-made (although, again sorry, but the laser-beam sequence just seemed daft to me) and the idea of the war only having lasted seven days was a brilliant twist I hadn't seen coming. The regulars were all fine, Georgia Moffat has a definite screen presence, and whatsisname as Cobb was very good too.

Maybe if/when I watch it again I'll find an overlooked gem, and I'm really pleased that so many people have enjoyed it so much, but for me (and again, it may just be a victim of its own hype) it fell very flat and in fact is the episode I've enjoyed least all year.

Next week looks fun though!

[Captain Tancredi]

Not sure it was all it was cracked up to be- although I suppose it was an "acting" story more than anything else with a story designed to give the actors lots to do. Some very good performances, to be sure, but the plot itself all seemed a bit derivative and I couldn't help feeling that I'd seen most of it somewhere before.

[Andrew Curnow]

PS - Are the production team teasing us fanboys? Week 2 and a reference to Donna "having something on her back"; this week the human myth referred to "The Great One". Are there going to be blue crystals appearing soon?!

[Martin Penny]

A 7/10 for me, I enjoyed it, but it didn't quite live up the hype...if there was much hype...it didn't live it to my hype anyway

I don't really have too many complaints, but I thought some of Freema's acting was pretty weak, and her crying was a bit...over the top. I also thought the explanation was a bit rushed at the end, and it was very unlikely Donna would have been able to figure out what was going on from the numbers.

I thought Tennant was excellent this week(though he can't say 'Martha' without looking like a madman), and the bit where he held the gun to the General's head was excellent, and had me thinking he was actually going to pull the trigger. Jenny was also very likeable, and the Hath looked great - I was sad to see the one that befriended Martha end up dead.

I loved the Doctor telling Donna - "We'll save your whiles for later...just in case."

[Andrew Curnow]

Plus, if I'm really picky, the phrase "A man who never would" didn't seem to make much sense to me. Catchy on a T-Shirt maybe, but in two or three (genuine) generations won't they all be wondering (a bit like me with that Meatloaf a song) what it is that the man wouldn't. Surely a less soundbitey, but more useful, legacy would have been "Don't go around killing each other".


Gah, ignore me, maybe I'm just in a bad mood this evening. Perhaps my liver's playing me up again (or maybe I've got a bout of Stahlmann's gas).

[Milky Tears]

2 this week, 1 last week - Milky's not a very happy Who fanboy!

As for Agyeman, I thought she was excellent, her reaction to the death of the kind Hath was one of her strongest moments in the series. IMO.

I think there might've been one week when I didn't even vote. That's how bad it was.

0/10

[SiHart]

Everyone seems very disappointed the Doctor didn't have sex!

I liked it. I didn't think I was going to- the twist about Jenny seemed sorted a bit too quickly and almost disappointingly and then it seemed to be turning in a standard two factions on a planet at war with each other... but the twists kept coming, keeping it intriguing. I loved the fact the war had only lasted 7 days, and I loved the fact that Donna worked it out first (and a Dewey gag too- warmed my librarian heart!).
Jenny's death seemed certain for the reasons that Andrew mentioned, but I thought there was going to be a regeneration. Still it's nice that she ultimately lived and I'm convinced we haven't seen the last of her.
Oh and great use of a clockwork mouse. Very Doctor Who!

Not brilliant, but very entertaining. This has been a consistently great season so far.

And I'm looking forward to next weeks too. The Agatha Christie joke made me laugh!

Si xx

[Pip Madeley]

Oh and great use of a clockwork mouse. Very Doctor Who!

Definitely, I could imagine Tom doing that

[Wayne]

Mixed feelings really.
My first reaction was disappointment that they copped out & manufactered an instant daughter for the Doctor out of a machine. For me it made ensuing the emotional subtext seem very contrived, & thus unconvicing because it wasn't his real daughter at all, & if he really wanted to, he could just as easily have gone back to the machine & made another one.
So after the first 2 minutes i was already very disappointed in the whole cop out of a premise, but by the end i'd been won round largely the performances rather than the actual story which turned out to be a bit bog standard, IMO. Georgia Moffet was very good, & really made it work, & to his credit Tennant has some nice moments too, showing a quieter more reflective Doctor, which always seems so refreshing after having become used to far too much SHOUTING from the Doctor half the time.
I still liked Donna's bits, (Shut it Tim!) although they're lessened by having to share the screen time with Martha. Freema herself wasn't too bad again for the most part, although her delivery was still a bit wooden at times.
Overall, it turned out to be enjoyable enough to watch at the time, after my initial disappointment, but like a lot of New Who, it feels very watchable but disposable, & i can't see me going out of my way to watch it again. The last 2 parter is the first New Who that i've actually felt like watching again for a long time. I still think it would've been so much better if they'd done The Doctor's Daughter properly. She wasn't actually a daughter at all. But i still enjoyed the character that Georgia Moffett created, & i wouldn't mind seeing her (& her hugely infectious big smile) return occasionally. (I mean what's not to like!)
My natural score for this ep would be 6.5/10 i think, but for the purposes of voting i'm inclined to upgrade to 7, rather than down to a 6.

[Paul Clement]

On the plus side, it was well-made (although, again sorry, but the laser-beam sequence just seemed daft to me)

Actually, the whole reason it was there doesn't really make sense in the context of the story either. It seems to have been added solely to show the acrobatic routine of Jenny.

[Rob McCow]

I was quite relieved that she wasn't the Doctor's biological daughter through sexual relations with that woman! I don't know why, it just seemed out of keeping with the Doctor's character.

Great episode and another actual Sci-Fi story, where the science fiction was central to the story. It was a bit like an old episode of Star Trek in fact. If only a rogue computer had been behind it all!

[Lord President]

Not bad, a little lacking in real plot though.

Moffatts voice really reminded me of Daniela Denby-Ashe though! Anyone else think that?


GM is very fit, and Tennant, Tate & Agyeman really excelled!

7/10

[Jason Thompson]

Well, I rather liked that one. In fact I liked it a lot. Performances were good, the Hath looked great, the source myth referring to a terraforming device was neat. The 'is she or isn't she' the Doctor's actual daughter was an interesting question, and is quite relevant in real life. Is a sperm donor a father? (Let's not actually go there in this thread: it was just an illustrative rhetorical question.) Even the technobabble explanation of how she came to be made enough sense. It stretches credibility a bit that in just seven days of fighting not one single original colonist is still alive to remember what they're actually looking for, and the power vacuum that started the fighting in the first place still seemed to be there at the end, only with even more people to break into factions. Still, that can be overlooked, I think.

What didn't I like about the episode? Well, it's not actually the episode itself, it's the stuff around it. The title is deliberately contentious (it's too dull for anyone to think it makes a good title otherwise), the 'hello dad' line is equally just there to hook people without actually being terribly sensible in context of the character. The business with the hand was again a nonsense bit just to make us think she might be the Doctor's 'real' daughter (paradox my arse). And then even before the titles roll we know the answer to all this and know exactly where she came from. If you're going to build up a mystery so massively in pre-publicity don't answer it in the pre-credits. It seems that, like all the crammed in pointless Doctor/companion kisses so far, this is RTD and co. taking a perverse pleasure in winding up 'the fans'. Sly digs like the 'those words are blasphemy' gag back in series 1 are amusing. Obvious crammed-in wind-ups are just puerile. This episode, frankly, was excellent, and certainly good enough to stand on its own without all the big fuss beforehand. It could have been a real 'wow, didn't see that coming, Doctor Who will never be the same again' episode. Instead all the build-up just made the 'oh, that's how she's his daughter' seem like a massive let-down.

Final thoughts: I agree that the 'we're not a couple' stuff is getting old, and does anyone think Jenny might be back for the finale this year?

[WhiteCrow]

6/10

I wanted to like this more, but I felt after the trailer last week it was a bit of a cop out, and it felt like we were running through a lot of cliches. I was wondering at one point if I was watching a Star Trek Next Generation episode filmed as Doctor Who.

On the plus side, the exploration of the Doctors feelings was brilliant drama, and Catherine Tate impressed once again as Donna.

Oh dear - Freema last week shows how badly she could do an evil clone. This week she showed how badly she could act when she got all upset cos her goldfish got flushed.

Hmmm - and perhaps I'm being uncharitable, but they went to the surface of this planet and I went "and we're in a quarry again".

It wasn't awful by a long shot, but it just wasn't great either. Perhaps 6/10 is unfair, but it's been the weakest episode now in a really strong run of stories.

[Larry]

I really enjoyed it whilst watching it, but I can't help but feel a bit disappointed by it - I was suckered in to thinking it might be actually his daughter so it was a shame when it turned out to be a clone.

.

have to admitt I to was diisapointed by that aswell and felt they certainly missed an oppotunity hear to really blow The Doctors life apart that the realisation of his biological daughter survived the time war.

Having said that I fave this 9/10 aqnd for me it's the best episode so far of series 4 messers Tennent and Tate continue to improve but sadly Freema seemed a bit redundent . Goergia Moffet was a wonderfull breath of threash air a really bounced of Tennent and I'm glad that she did not die as it leaves the door open for a return.

Top marks to Nigel Terry too .