Rate and Discuss: The Almost People

[Jason Thompson]

Two other thoughts:

The final scene in the TARDIS is a significant one for Rory, as he takes the Doctor's instructions over Amy's obvious need for help, showing how much he has come to trust the man.

The Doctor spents all episode fighting for the right of the Flesh to live and exist as the people made from it are still people, then at the end he dissolves Flesh Amy without a qualm. Is she not a real person somehow when all the others are?

[Awesome Wells]

The Doctor spents all episode fighting for the right of the Flesh to live and exist as the people made from it are still people, then at the end he dissolves Flesh Amy without a qualm. Is she not a real person somehow when all the others are?

This is the best example (except, perhaps, Rory's trust for the Doctor overriding his love for Amy, or the Gangers swapping between "we want to kill everyone" and "we are humans, and just want to live", or Smith and Ganger Creed standing around in front of a door instead of going into the Tardis, or the Doctor not destroying Fleshy Jen himself, or precisely what the humans are going to convince the company to do, or...) of the big problem with this episode: characters' motivations. They're all over the place. It's hard to become involved with people whose reasons for doing things change for no other purpose than to further the story along or create dramatic tension. Ditto all the good (the eyes on the wall) and nice (Tom Baker's voice) ideas that had no real justification. If all that's left of the Gangers in the end are their eyes, why aren't they just slopping around on the floor? How did they end up on the wall? In fact, why did the humans bother calling a shuttle when they could have climbed out though the gaping holes in the plot?

The irony is, there were lots of good things in the script: great dialogue and some actual "something in my eye" moments. It's as though Matt Graham is a fine writer who, like an arthritic gardener, needs help with his plotting.

On first viewing, I mentally scored this as a seven because of the double Doctors, the Scottish guy becoming a character, the Tardis's arrival and - of course - the ending, where Franny B looks strangely like River Song. Second time around, even with all the good shizzle, the flaws are more to the fore and it's down to a six again. Better than last week, but only just.

[Perry Vale]

Nice to see that Rory/Arthur has picked up the Turlough habit of looking over his shoulder a lot.

Loved DW:C this week, put a smile back on my face.

[Rob McCow]

Absolutely loved it this week. I knocked it down to a nine because the ending was a little shonky. Why couldn't the Doctor make Amy-on-the-TARDIS human?

Also, there was an apparent mistake with the sonic screwdriver continuity. Although the Doctor threw one across the room to himself, he also had it later... of course, as they swapped places it might be fine if the Flesh can actually make it's own 'sonic'. But then you get the whole issue of the Flesh making complicated machines... so perhaps, PERHAPS, the Doctor has two of them. That'd be the simplest solution.

Anyway, I thought it was a tense, exciting and atmospheric two-parter, with plenty of moral ambiguity and *shocks!*. I don't know if everything was nailed down as tightly as it could have been, but it seemed to work for me.

Things I loved:
Two Doctor interplay, that's always good fun.
All of the mucking about with identity, as in the two Jens. Of course it's all been done before, but that doesn't stop it being fun.
Raquel Cassidy as Cleaves (Oh yes, cleaves, chops in two, very clever) I though was really good. I don't know why people are complaining about the lack of characterisation. These weren't the most fabulously in-depth characters we've ever seen but they were more than fine for the purposes of the episode. We had the bolshy base commander who actually tuned out to be sensible and nice, there was the dad, young and angry Jen and the other two who kind of made up the numbers. But more than half of them were distinctive enough and felt 'real' to me.
There were lots of good lines and some good jokes too.
And they kept the Flesh-plus-Jen in the shadows and the background so we didn't get a clear look at her. We get brief glimpses of the body distortions, which made them so much more effective. Especially when she was backlit in the shadow and her neck was growing longer. Loved that bit.
And the TARDIS's entrance was a real 'Woo! Yay!' moment!

[Larry]

just 6/10, my lowest score for a while maybe it's just me but after a great start to series 6 these last 2 episodes i've found a bit dull and boring and for me are the worst episodes of Matt's era so far

[Simon R]

There's nothing like a well researched article...

http://www.metro.co.uk/tv/reviews/86...to-be-pregnant

and this is nothing like a well researched article.

Ross and Rose indeed!

[Rob McCow]

Doctor Who thwarts the Gangers as Rose is revealed to be pregnant

Best headline ever!

[Paul Monk]

The Doctor spents all episode fighting for the right of the Flesh to live and exist as the people made from it are still people, then at the end he dissolves Flesh Amy without a qualm. Is she not a real person somehow when all the others are?

Good point. I wonder if thats deliberate. Or it could be that the thought of two Amy's nagging him in the TARDIS is just unbearable. Now, for Rory on the other hand ....

[SiHart]

Should have spotted it wasn't the real Amy- she's been wearing that red shirt all season!

[Awesome Wells]

There's nothing like a well researched article...

http://www.metro.co.uk/tv/reviews/86...to-be-pregnant

and this is nothing like a well researched article.

Ross and Rose indeed!

I just saw that. Good old Metro - always worth the price one pays for it.

[SiHart]

Just thinking about the Doctor dissolving the Ganger Amy- could it be that he had to dissolve her to free the real Amy? She does seem to wake up suddenly after the Ganger is dissolved, doesn't she?

Anyway, next week, we finally get the Doctor/ Rory team for a bit. That's a good thing!

[Awesome Wells]

Good point. I wonder if thats deliberate. Or it could be that the thought of two Amy's nagging him in the TARDIS is just unbearable. Now, for Rory on the other hand ....

Without wishing to delve too deeply into Rory and Amy's sex life, exactly how realistic are Gangers? I mean, Rory must have seen parts of Rose that the Doctor never has... are they exact copies inside and out?

(I can almost guarantee there will be a "I've been shagging a Ganger!' protest from Rory next week.)

[Llordllama]

Let's see - the opening few minutes of the Two Doctors was brilliant, funny, confusing and mad. The last few minutes saw my jaw hit the floor (and I've since had it fall off again watching the prologue and trail for next week). Okay there was a bit of running around, some bits didn't (seem to) make sense (two sonics?) but overall really really good. If they can keep cranking them out like this with genuine surprises and the like - awesome!

And Rory/Arthur continues to be the best thing in it (after Matt), sorry Amy!

[Si Hunt]

PERHAPS, the Doctor has two of them. That'd be the simplest solution.

"The Eleventh Hour" showed that the TARDIS can dispense sonic screwdrivers.

Si.

[Awesome Wells]

I didn't think there was a mistake with the sonic screwdriver; I thought the switch (and later appearance in the "wrong" Doctor's hands) was designed to show the Doctors had swapped places.

[Perry Vale]

(I can almost guarantee there will be a "I've been shagging a Ganger!' protest from Rory next week.)

I predict a 'ginger ganger' joke at some point in the proceedings.

[shada pavlova]

The Doctor spents all episode fighting for the right of the Flesh to live and exist as the people made from it are still people, then at the end he dissolves Flesh Amy without a qualm. Is she not a real person somehow when all the others are?

No, because she was still being directly controlled by the real Amy without any will of her own. The Gangers in the rest of the episode had been freed from control by the solar storm, that's why they were able to think for themselves and such.

Why couldn't the Doctor make Amy-on-the-TARDIS human?

I daresay he could, but where would that leave the original Amy?

[Si Hunt]

Dunno but it would be Back Of The Net time for Rory!

Si.

[Stuart Wallis]

I predict a 'ginger ganger' joke at some point in the proceedings.

Ginger ganger gooly gooly watcher, ginger ganger goo, a-ginger ganger goo.

We aim to please. We very seldom do...

Back to the point then. I still couldn't get into this story. Indeed it wasn't quite up to last week, and it wasn't much then, as it kept drifting between one group and another bunch who look largely like the first bunch. Took a fair bit of effort to follow in other words. The gangers didn't help matters, not being able to decide what they wanted. And why set up a subplot concerning Rory last week, only to largely ignore it this? The one good thing about the episode was the way they worked out the editing and Matt's timing when the two Doctors (what a good name for a story!) appeared on-screen together.

2/10

[Andrew Curnow]

I'm glad somebody's mentioned the eyes (Dave I think) as, although I'm far more willing this weekend to overlook such oddities and just enjoy, that didn't make sense to me - nor did the pile of 'dead' Flesh bodies, overalls and all, lying on the floor. How did they get there? Why would they just be dumped, when in fact they can be bunged back in the tank and recycled (or at least so we were told last week)?

Also, although we all enjoyed it, was there really any point to the 'jelly baby' scene pre-credits? The Flesh Doctor was fully stable for the whole of the rest of the episode, so I'm not sure it wasn't a bit self-indulgent - but fun though!

And, like Alex, I did wonder about Morpeth Jetsan as being such an odd name - although it may just be some kind of injoke for the production team, who knows.

[SiHart]

Morpeth is a town in Northumberland, where a friend of mine at school came from, so maybe it's just where the company's HQ is or one of their offices?

[SiHart]

Also, although we all enjoyed it, was there really any point to the 'jelly baby' scene pre-credits? The Flesh Doctor was fully stable for the whole of the rest of the episode, so I'm not sure it wasn't a bit self-indulgent - but fun though!

According to Confidential (and the episode itself) it's the Ganger Doctor dealing with the problem of multiple regenerations before he stabilised.

[Awesome Wells]

I'm glad somebody's mentioned the eyes (Dave I think) as, although I'm far more willing this weekend to overlook such oddities and just enjoy, that didn't make sense to me - nor did the pile of 'dead' Flesh bodies, overalls and all, lying on the floor. How did they get there? Why would they just be dumped, when in fact they can be bunged back in the tank and recycled (or at least so we were told last week)?

'Twas me, yes, but I should have mentioned the pile of ex-gangers as well, because they made even less sense... although Jen did mention that they were 'faulty'*; maybe this means that they couldn't be recycled like conventional gangers. Perhaps.

Having watched it again, I've revised my opinion upwards again to a seven. I'm still not entirely convinced by a lot of it, but I think it's heart was in the right place.


*This just made me think - for whatever reason - of Mrs Richards and Manuel in 'Communication Problems': 'He says the manager's a Mr Watt, aged forty.' 'No no no, Fawlty.' 'Faulty, what's wrong with him?'

[Andrew Curnow]

According to Confidential (and the episode itself) it's the Ganger Doctor dealing with the problem of multiple regenerations before he stabilised.

Ye-es true, but... I don't know, I guess I expected them to maybe come back to that (particularly as the end of the pre-credits was a red-eyed, mad-looking ganger Doctor) rather than it be over in a flash.

[Alex]

Just thinking about the Doctor dissolving the Ganger Amy- could it be that he had to dissolve her to free the real Amy? She does seem to wake up suddenly after the Ganger is dissolved, doesn't she?

That's what I thought too - somehow (because of the Tardis scanner?) he knew that Amy was about to give birth, and it would be preferrably better that she was awake whilst doing so, and that's why he needed to dispose of Amy's ganger?

Ahem...That sounds oddly rude for some reason...

I don't know why people are complaining about the lack of characterisation.

Agreed. I thought they were really well defined characters, and ones that intrigued me, unlike in The Curse of the Black Spot (or even Auntie and Uncle in the otherwise sublime The Doctor's Wife). Though blokey from Life on Mars / Ashes To Ashes was a bit rubbish, but then I've never been fond of the actor to be honest.